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Author Topic: Ok. I give up on n-Track  (Read 18373 times)
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teej813
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« on: August 08, 2006, 11:19:52 AM »

Grrrr...  Ever since i upgraded to the Emu 1820m and started using ASIO, I can't even playback current songs.  Pops.. clicks.. lock ups..   I haven't had this much trouble with N since the old VIA chipset days.  Sheesh.

So, i'm ready to switch software.  Limited testing of MTS went well, and i think i could get used to the layout.  Any other packages i should consider?



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Pasher
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 11:28:28 AM »

I've often said it before, but I've run my CubaseSE on several different PCs, with different M/Bs and Soundcards, and I've never had a moments concern.
Its about £95 here - prolly the same in $s over there?
Pa

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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 11:33:04 AM »

Quote from: teej813
Grrrr...  Ever since i upgraded to the Emu 1820m and started using ASIO, I can't even playback current songs.  Pops.. clicks.. lock ups..   I haven't had this much trouble with N since the old VIA chipset days.  Sheesh.

So, i'm ready to switch software.  Limited testing of MTS went well, and i think i could get used to the layout.  Any other packages i should consider?
teej

First make sure that you can run the card without the pops and clicks on other softwares.  

Pops and clicks are often indicative of IRQ table problems with the EMU cards.  They do not like to share IRQs.  

If you are unsure, post your entire IRQ table.  


--Mac
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kenny_b
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 12:04:49 PM »

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]First make sure that you can run the card without the pops and clicks on other softwares.
[/quote]

Good idea.  

I was reading some reviews of emu cards a few months ago.  While the cards seemed to offer amazing specs and other software goodies for a very low price there were plenty of performance issues that many users griped about.  The negative reviews scared me away from the emu brand at least for now.

What version of n-Track are you using?

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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 05:15:15 PM »

Running EMU cards is kind of complicated and a lot of people can't seem to wrap themselves around the differences.  I think that accounts for the majority of complaints, although the laptop version 1616 line does seem to have a certain amount of mechanical/electrical problems, which are reported on the unofficial EMU forum.  Not sure what that is all about yet.  


Teej's 1820M has a pretty good track record, though, and amazingly good sound specs.  


--Mac
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RichLum
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 06:35:51 PM »

The 2 I'm considering at the moment are Tracktion and REAPER.
REAPER is probably not quite at the stage to make a switch but it is developing fast.

Tracktion I really like, but don't want to buy it now and then find out REAPER has got to a good stage in a few months time...

Tracktion is a completely different workflow though and I didn't like it the first time I used it a couple of years ago, but somehting just clicked when I tried it out again recently and it is really fast to work with and super stable on my system.

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tmon
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 09:15:04 PM »

MTSPro.
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gtr4Him
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 09:27:33 PM »

Teej,

I opted to order the upgraded software package deal EMU promoted after I had already purchased my 1820M. Originally it came with Cubase VST 5.1 which worked well but the UI was... well, BLECH! The upgrade got me a CD with Cubase LE, Sonar LE and a crippled version of Ableton Live. Both Cubase and Sonar run flawlessly on my system. I have n-Track 4 whatever latest build and it works pretty well but is prone to bombing for no apparent reason.

I would take a look at MTS, Cubase SE/LE if I were you and maybe Sonar Home Studio XL. Lately, if it's straight up audio, I fire up Cubase LE. If it has MIDI and virtual instruments I use either Cubase or Power Tracks Pro Audio 11. (Which is also an excellent product IMO... especially alongside Band In a Box.)

n-Track has long been a fav of mine but alas, the shine has lost it's luster...

TG

PS I'm keeping an eye on Reaper too. It sure seems to be an efficient bit of code. Not a lot of eye candy (who cares?) but it runs very well on my setup. Time will tell...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 09:30:04 PM by gtr4Him » Logged

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e man
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2006, 09:30:40 PM »

Quote from: Pasher
I've often said it before, but I've run my CubaseSE on several different PCs, with different M/Bs and Soundcards, and I've never had a moments concern.
Its about £95 here - prolly the same in $s over there?
Pa

i've been leaning towards cubase myself.  spent a little time a while back on a friends machine running cubase le and i thought it was pretty good.  wouldn't take me long to get used to it.

i wish i could affor acid pro 6.  i think that's my new dream app.

later...
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robomusic
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2006, 11:08:10 PM »

Another MTSPro vote!,  all who pass this over lightly are missing a gem, while many are fussing over the software MTS users are simply making music. I help out over at cakewalk with alot of the newbies there and 90% of there problems would be solved with MTS. I have tracktion, nice but no cigar, Cubase to darned many screens to manage, Cakewalk, poor VSTi support, Powertracks? I have the new version 11, heavy on the CpU and poor VSTi support, N-T well that is the reason for this thread, reaper, nice but still buggy and unstable. Consider this, MTS came out with version 4 and they have 1 upgrade fix, 1, let me spell that out ONE!, and that one fixed things i never had problems with, Geil simply does not put out software until it is rock solid. And the best part is the effects i never even use any others now i have learned these and they are all i need, add the sampler and it is a kicking package. one final thought, the ease of bussing for midi and the work flow alone is lightyears ahead of anything out there. Actually it is so simple that it seems to be lacking, but it is not.
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philipstaley
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2006, 10:03:44 AM »

I ended up with Sonar but also strongly considered Samplitude (both interfaces are very similar to Ntrack).  Two of my highest criteria, sound quality being equal, were workflow and controlability from my hardware (Tascam FW1884).  In any case, download the demos for anything you are considering and work with them.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 10:10:57 AM by philipstaley » Logged
archimedes
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2006, 12:25:57 PM »

I've been playing with Reaper for a month, and I really like it. The MIDI is still a bit rough, but the audio editing has been great, and so far it's been rocksolid. Routing is awesome.

Regardless of which way you're leaning right now, if you've got some hours to play, i recommend having a bash at Reaper.

There's been an update nearly every other day. Like Flavio on speed :^)
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KurtS
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2006, 02:44:39 PM »

Well I went from N-Track to SawStudio Basic.  SawStudio Basic does everything I need it to do and has been rock solid.  Check out the live videos on their website, that's what sold me.

http://www.sawstudio.com/LiveVideoPromo.htm

-Kurt
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Don Gaynor
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2006, 04:15:38 PM »

Teej,

Take a squint at PTPA 11 at http://www.pgmusic.com. Be forwarned that the GUI is very different from N, but also quite intuitive. Very nice MIDI features and the forums at pg music are both civil and helpful.

Don
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2006, 04:17:30 PM »

I've also been using CubaseSE (v1.08 not the current v3) and it is rock solid, especially for MIDI.

You might want to run out to Barnes&Noble or Border though...  a UK mag is giving away a $100 package; should be out any day in the US:

------ from kvraudio.com -------------------------------

Samplitude V8 SE free with Computer Music 103       (26th July 2006)


The cover DVD with issue 103 of Computer Music magazine (Summer 2006) features the full MAGIX Samplitude V8 SE, in a UK-exclusive giveaway worth ‚49. It comes with an 8-page tutorial in the magazine to get you started, and features:

    * 48 tracks, 2 submix buses, 4 aux buses.
    * Consistent use of 32-bit floating point processing.
    * ASIO, MME, and WDM support.
    * Comprehensive real-time audio editor functions.
    * Unique object-oriented editing options.
    * Batch processing, flexible mixer with variable signal flow.
    * ReWire, DirectX and VST plug-in support.
    * Automatic latency compensation for Samplitude effects.
    * VSTi support, including 8 separate outputs.
    * MIDI recording and editing.
    * Support for up to 8 I/Os (24-bit/96kHz).
    * Mixer automation (volume, pan), 5x undo/redo.
    * High-quality effects: Normalize, 4-band parametric EQ, Stereo Enhancer, Amp Simulation, Vocoder, Dehisser, Timestretching/Pitchshifting, Panorama, Dynamics (Compressor, Expander, Noise Gate, Limiter), Reverb, Delay, Resampling, Declipping, Distortion, Noise Reduction, Phase Invert.

Also on this month's CM DVD are 2,190 royalty-free samples, including the massive Mandy Edge Vocal Toolkit. Computer Music 103 is on sale now in the UK.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 04:18:19 PM by TimOBrien » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2006, 12:55:15 PM »

I just gave up on N-Track and went to Tracktion. I have been very happy with tracktion. The included plug-ins are fantastic, and it comes with a mastering plug-in (Final Mix) that was worth the price of the software alone.  I had one big problem with MTS, everytime I tried to shift a wav file over a few MS, it would not shift the way N-Track does, but it created a new entire wav file (taking about 5-10 seconds each time for regular length wav files) After shifting a file around to match it up to a bass line, I had 12 new long wav files on my desktop. I am sure there was something I missed, but try tracktion.
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2006, 01:12:49 PM »

Quote from: pappaus
I had one big problem with MTS, everytime I tried to shift a wav file over a few MS, it would not shift the way N-Track does, but it created a new entire wav file (taking about 5-10 seconds each time for regular length wav files) After shifting a file around to match it up to a bass line, I had 12 new long wav files on my desktop. I am sure there was something I missed, but try tracktion.

Operator error, MTS doesn't do the time shift dance the same way that ntrack does.  (You should have posted on the MTS forum about this, help would have likely been swift and easy! SAZ holds court over there and he has actually answered this one in the past.  )

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]Dragging Audio by a small amount

For best results the Ctrl key can be pressed while dragging audio by a small amount. This is best explained using an example:
Consider a word in a vocal track that's a bit to early. You can select the word (including some surrounding "studio silence") and drag it to the right. Now a piece of silence will appear on the left side of the selected part. This happens because the original word is removed. Better result may be obtained using the Ctrl key (to copy the piece instead of move it), so the original word will stay in place. The result is that the background noise that appears just before the word is repeated once. This usually is less objectionable than plain silence.[/quote]  from page 45 of the MTS manual

There is also the "Insert" toggle command.  

With MTS, you can time shift by grabbing and dragging, a neat feature, you can even drag a track backwards until a large part of it is before the song starts and just leave it like that.  Handy for making clips or for whatever editing reasons and fast, man.  

But I know what you are saying, one of the hardest things to do is switch software, at least it is for me, and I have to use several different recording softwares all the time -- I'm often looking for a feature from software A in software B or trying to make B do it like C does it, etc.  And the dance I loathe the most is having to start learning a brand new software.  Get past that and you can soon make that sucker talk, though.  


--Mac
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 01:15:32 PM by Mac » Logged
teej813
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2006, 10:05:41 AM »

Yikes.  Lots to consider. Thanks for all your input, guys. As always, it seems i need to make time to try a bunch and decide for myself..  hmmm..  that reminds me of something..  'trust your ears', or something along those lines.  


Mac,
Thanks for the tip about IRQs, but i've been thru that.. diff slots, install hardware in diff orders trying to grab unshared IRQs and memory addresses..  UGH!  I wish this was an IRQ issue. It would be a lot easier to solve than learning a new piece of software. But here's my IRQ table. Holler if you see something out of whack, but i don't.




Anyway, i've demoed MTS and like the way it's laid out. As i recall, the demo only allows a few tracks, so i can't really stress test it. I'll try to find time to DL and play with some others too.

I appreciate the input, all.  really...


teej
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2006, 11:26:17 AM »

That Live! card on 18 -- DID YOU REMOVE IT BEFORE INSTALLING THE EMU?  

If not, that could very well be your problem.  

Suggest you take this one to the unofficial EMU forum and the 1820 forum specifically.  They can point you to the directions for how to remove both cards and re-install in the easiest manner, common problem even though it is mentioned in the install directions.  Evidently another Creative card can tie up the same code resources or something, but you can use them both if you first uninstall all Creative cards, reboot and install the EMU card.  After asctertaining that the EMU card is working you can then go ahead and re-install the other Creative card.  Or so they say.


--Mac
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teej813
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2006, 05:06:04 PM »

Thanks, Mac, but yes, i installed the Emu before the Live.  Actually, i rebuilt the PC, installed the Emu, and then did testing with existing songs. It was only after i reimaged the PC several times, having tried several combinations of slot and ASIO settings, that i installed the Live so i could finish a project.

I spose i should back up and try all this once more. I'll visit the Emu forum you suggest when i'm ready to start.

Thanks, all.



teej
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